Doug Gillen is the man behind Fifth Wall TV, a London based production channel, and digital platform that investigates all aspects of graffiti and street art.
Originally from Scotland, Doug moved to London 10 years ago where he experimented with various different broadcasting projects in radio, as well as television. However, it didn’t quite fit until he ventured into the art world and seemed like the right way to go. He created Fifth Wall TV six years ago, and he’s been filming and talking about the world of street art and graffiti ever since. This endeavor took him around the world and exposed him to the different cultures and people, including his trip to Bethlehem which was an eye opener of the injustice and oppression imposed on the Palestinians.
After returning from a busy couple of months in Hong Kong, Belgium and Scotland, SAUS caught up with Gillen to talk about everything, from Banksy, “Selling out”, and the H&M lawsuit, to plotting a trip to Iran.
Hi Doug, thanks for participating in SAUS’s Interview Series. For anyone that might not be familiar with your work, tell us a little about yourself.
My name’s Doug, I’m originally from Scotland but have spent the last ten years in London. I run an online channel called Fifth Wall TV that uses video to delve into the world of urban contemporary art.
How old were you when you first became interested in film and photography? And when was Fifth Wall created? And why?
Fifth Wall came to be mainly because I can’t paint. Mear One was in town and I wanted to film him, with the help of a mate we put together a little cut and so Fifth Wall was born. Funnily enough that mural that has kicked off a whole anti-Semitism row in the UK.
Have you studied film/Photography?
I studied film at Uni then spent a couple of years working in TV but really I didn’t start learning until a couple of years ago when I started Fifth Wall.
Do you work on other projects that aren’t street art related?
Less and less. Sometimes I feel like I’ve tried every job in this city but thankfully this street art fad has stuck around.
I am not much of a hip hop fan, but I love the graffiti and street art movement, and I always wondered why the movement is associated with Hip Hop as opposed to other musical genres. In your opinion, what is the relation between the two?
It’s funny that graffiti always has this association with hip-hop when it’s such a small part of its story. Although in amongst its 20,000 year* history there certainly was a golden age in the late 70’s early 80’s as both cultures evolved together. I’d say their special relationship is a forged by expression, freedom and most importantly the streets.
*number for illustrative purposes
You have been very busy the last few months, traveling the globe: Hong Kong, Belgium, Scotland…you must have worked on a lot of footage. Is there something is the works?
Way too much footage! I partner with street art festivals to create video content for them so aside from that I’m using this as an opportunity to vlog behind the scenes of the circuit. All I really want to do is help bring this scene into the forefront and show it for what it is: a big, sexy, confused, active, colourful and engaged shit-show filled with heroes and villains.
Do you have a team of people that you work with or you’re a one man show?
It varies, it’s really just me but I have freelancers I can call if there’s a project, I’d like to build on this.
My favorite project of yours was of the Banksy’s Walled Off Hotel visit in Bethlehem. I was pleased to know that you emphasize with the Palestinian cause. Could you tell us what was your experience like? Did you learn anything new that may have changed your outlook on that part of the world?
It was actually Banksy that drew my attention to this when he dropped Wall & Piece back in 2005. I come from Scotland where we have politics running through our veins so was naturally drawn towards to scale of this injustice. I learnt new things with every single step I took out there, from the second you step off the plane in Tel Aviv you’re hit with this non-stop whirlwind of emotions. I had actually booked a night in Tel Aviv after to go and see the city but after doing the tours and walking round Aida refugee camp I found it really hard to focus.
The hotel itself pretty overwhelming at times, you’re sitting there drinking a tea in the middle of a large prison watching bus loads of tourists come and paint stencils of David Beckham on the Wall.
While I understand the H&M vs REVOK issue in terms of ownership and copyright, and I am in no way defending the big corporations but my question is: should you worry about getting sued if you took footage of an artist’s piece without their permission?
This was another head-melter. I think artists are only now beginning to realize the power of their social media accounts. H&M were hit with some Biblical wrath after this REVOK case broke and I think a lot of artists have become emboldened by it. Even in the short space of time since this I’ve noticed more online complaining about tattoo designs, restaurants and such. Every case is different but in this age of offence and outrage a degree of rationale is encouraged before you spit the dummy out the pram. Otherwise the raw energy that drives street art and graffiti will be lost forever.
We often hear about artists going the commercial route and labeled as sell outs. But in our capitalist system, I think it’s difficult to survive as a full-time artist. Artists need to have a business sense in order to make a living, and may choose to work with government organizations, real estate developers or corporations to supplement their income.
My question is: how does one cooperate with a large entity while ensuring moral ground? In other words, what constitutes “selling out,” arguably the worst insult that can be lobbed at an artist? Do you think this term is outdated?
For me a “sell-out” is someone that changes his or her ideology for a job. Banksy is the one they love to call sell-out but as far as I’m concerned the dude just made money rather than sold-out. He’s done a couple of close to the line ones, i.e. The Simpsons and a The Times promo video a few years ago, both Murdoch publications, which could be seen as hypocritical but overall he hasn’t changed anything.
Ben Eine is hands down the king of this though. He does every single commercial job under the sun and seemingly couldn’t give a shit and instead of being vindicated he’s celebrated for it. This for me is his attitude, he’s never preached with his work so why shouldn’t he team up with these companies?
That said I do think there in an increased leaning towards money from this scene. When it kicked off there wasn’t a penny to be made and that made it pure, most importantly it made the artwork pure. Now we have rent-a-can artists making a decent living painting 4 storey adverts for Banks and Corporations, which is great for them, but everyone else pays a price for it.
Of all the projects that you were involved in the last couple of years, which project was the most rewarding for you? And why?
The Walled Off hands down. Stepping foot inside Bethlehem was one of the most surreal, emotional and memorable experiences I’ll ever have. Cheers for that Banksy if you’re reading this.
Tell us something about you that would surprise our readers?
I spent six months as a presenter on a shopping channel, after the channel was liquidated I turned to online bingo. Presenting, not playing.
What can we look forward to seeing from you next? What projects do you have planned?
I really want to put together a trip to Iran. The underground scene there fascinates me, I know a couple of guys there doing interesting things so would love to bring that to the table. Can’t imagine Khamenei and co welcoming this idea with open arms but watch this space.
That’s it for now. Thank you Doug!
